I dunno, mb7. I've lost sleep over that question over the years. The only thing I've been able to come up with is that it boils down to what kind of moral or ethical qualities are present in the person running the team. Maybe fear of failure also comes into it??? What I really question are the high level teams that throw a couple of pylons on the roster to justify their presence in a lower division.[/quote]

I'm not one to come on this forum, nor am I one to complain about the way BAS is run, but once my "moral or ethical qualities" are called out, then it becomes personal.

I put together FC UK with the ultimate goal of having all friends (as good or bad at soccer as the friends are) on the team. With the emergence of Division I and Division II+ being a 3-ref system (and over $400 more than Division II), my players were unwilling to spend the extra money on paying for the extra refs. Division II was the unanimous choice.

I clearly outlined who was on my team. The exact same team as Van Bas Tards FC (Winter 2009 Indoor) , plus Thomas Pimentel and Anthony De Oliveira on a full time basis, with the additions of gary Aguiar, Alex Colbourne and Matthew Reich. The team that was fielded in the first game of the season was the EXACT same team as the last game of the season: no call ups or surprises whatsoever.

After the first game of the season, I sent in an e-mail stating that we should be moved up a division, as we had won the game 11-1 without Colin Hillock (central defender) and Riccardo Lo Monaco (attacking midfielder). Would a person with questionable moral or ethical qualities do such a thing? Regardless, the response was to give it a few matches, as we were anticipated to be one of the 'better' teams in the division.

After a few weeks, we were moved to the division we are in now. As far as being questioned as throwing a couple "pylons" on the roster to justify our presence in a lower division, i guess we should cut those so-called "pylons" from the team--myself included, in order to make way for random players who are significantly better than the rest. That would ultimately defeat the purpose of assembling a soccer team consisting of all friends who do nearly everything together. Remember, we could have thrown random players together in order to field the best team possible, but that was far from my goal.

The only thing I feared was not having a group of guys who were close and were unable to get along with one another. In my opinion, wins and losses are secondary.

I don't believe I've mentioned any team or player specifically in any of my posts, but if there are quality teams here just trying to have "fun", but the extra cost was the overriding factor preventing them from playing at their proper level, then those teams should not mind if they are placed in DIV I for INDOOR where costs are identical for everyone, right?

Regardless of the motives and make-up of some of these teams this summer, when you're pushing +50 after 14 matches, I'm afraid your "fun" might be coming at the expense of a few other teams.

*nods*

No team or player was mentioned specifically, but when the forum post specifically states two teams, and comments are made regarding situations surrounding these teams, it then inadvertently begins to become directed at individuals.

Nevertheless, indoor is a different cup of the. Since money is no deciding factor, whether it be division I or II, should be no issue. I am not taking control of the indoor team, nor am i playing on it, so those issues are out of my hands regardless.

I am not exactly sure what more I could have done in order to move up a division or two. After the first game i asked to be moved up. I clearly outlined it would not be fair to our team, other teams nor administration if we were stuck in a lower quality division.

Nevertheless, indoor is a different cup of tea*

	anthp wrote:
	No team or player was mentioned specifically, but when the forum post specifically states two teams

Admin has not called anyone or team out by name but I have FC UK for example. I am jack layton standing up for the little guy being all confrontational because my position is largely irrelevant ADMIN on the other hand is Steven Harper. He has all the power and has to make sure and strike an accord between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'.

I have to take acception with some of the things about this post. First off, as was stated throughout, FCUK asked repeatedly asked to be moved up divisions after the first few games, and were denied the request. The 2 teams above us were moved up (and we should have joined them) but it was decided that we be left in the div. we finished in. Now, the idea that we take pleasure in running over teams and that is the only reason we wanted to be in a lower division is missguided and wrong, and the suggestion that a few "pile-ons" were added to the team to justify our placement is disrespectful to the players on our team that this was geared towards (though no names were mentioned it is easy enough to decipher who is meant). This team was compiled exactly like AnthP said, because we are all friends outside of soccer and want to play together. We are one of those teams that goes out after every game for food and drinks, and who hang out away from soccer as well. Should people that do not have exceptional skill be told they cannot play with their friends because they bring down the quality of soccer? Absolutely not! There was an error made during the div. re-alignment and that is not our faults, but with that being said can nobody see that it took a tie on the last game of the season to even win first place. In the playoffs we also won. There were two very close matches 1-0, 1-0 in the semis and finals as Bart mentioned. Now does this connote a total dominance over the division?

During our first session last winter we played in fairgrounds in a very low division and won a total of 3 games. Second session was played at BAS and nobody complained or made a fuss (other teams or ourselves) when we were the ones getting "straddled" during indoor, where we didn't make the playoffs but did improved as the season went on. Now, we did not completely overhaul our team, we changed 2-3 people, not because of skill but because people were unable to play due to priorities and other friends wanted to take their place.

No one enjoys being on the receiving end of a lopsided loss, and i have been on the receiving end of many of those in my career, but please think and question before you begin to attack another team. Though you may defend and say no names were mentioned but FCUK and Blaze are clearly named in the post.

	WebGuru wrote:
	why would such talented and experienced guys (who have spent time in BAS before) - want to play against newbs at start of season in 2C? you have been called out... +44 is that really fun?? :shock:

the "call out" is right there...

BTW jack layton is a complete jerk off.

I told you all to stop (word deleted by admin) - there were other forces at work here. Not the teams fault.

So what have we all learned here: $hit happens

Armadakeeper wrote:

I have to take acception with some of the things about this post. First off, as was stated throughout, FCUK asked repeatedly asked to be moved up divisions after the first few games, and were denied the request. The 2 teams above us were moved up (and we should have joined them) but it was decided that we be left in the div. we finished in. Now, the idea that we take pleasure in running over teams and that is the only reason we wanted to be in a lower division is missguided and wrong, and the suggestion that a few "pile-ons" were added to the team to justify our placement is disrespectful to the players on our team that this was geared towards (though no names were mentioned it is easy enough to decipher who is meant). This team was compiled exactly like AnthP said, because we are all friends outside of soccer and want to play together. We are one of those teams that goes out after every game for food and drinks, and who hang out away from soccer as well. Should people that do not have exceptional skill be told they cannot play with their friends because they bring down the quality of soccer? Absolutely not! There was an error made during the div. re-alignment and that is not our faults, but with that being said can nobody see that it took a tie on the last game of the season to even win first place. In the playoffs we also won. There were two very close matches 1-0, 1-0 in the semis and finals as Bart mentioned. Now does this connote a total dominance over the division? During our first session last winter we played in fairgrounds in a very low division and won a total of 3 games. Second session was played at BAS and nobody complained or made a fuss (other teams or ourselves) when we were the ones getting "straddled" during indoor, where we didn't make the playoffs but did improved as the season went on. Now, we did not completely overhaul our team, we changed 2-3 people, not because of skill but because people were unable to play due to priorities and other friends wanted to take their place. No one enjoys being on the receiving end of a lopsided loss, and i have been on the receiving end of many of those in my career, but please think and question before you begin to attack another team. Though you may defend and say no names were mentioned but FCUK and Blaze are clearly named in the post.

You make some valid points - there are compelling arguments on both sides.

What would you say though if FC UK had largely the same roster and went back in to 2C next season with another +45 GFA?

We played FCUK twice and we tie then 1-1 and lost 1-0 in the semi.they're just young guys.
Now Blaze should never be placed in 2C...I mention this before we start the outdoor session.

well what can i say that hasn't already been said?

We have had a rough past in BAS...if you look at the history of past sessions Blaze FC is compiled of two of the worst teams in BAS history, FC OAKVILLE and Liger's Fury, both teams ended the season with not even one point to our names...now beleive it or not our current squads core of players was built around these teams and maybe 3 other friends of the team...we have all played indoor and outdoor together for years and finally have developed from one of the absolute worst teams in BAS to a decent squad...our goal isn't to beat up on new teams, but we too were once those teams getting beaten up, which ended up being a learning experience for us, and made us better in the long run. When we first signed up for this session we registered for division 2 because we have never won ANYTHING before in BAS and figured this is where we belonged beased on our history, now whether the league decides 2C or 2A is where we belong is not up to us...eventually we were promoted, and if you look at the results the majority of our games were very close with the exception of one or two. We have many 35+ players and many younger guys, and even two first time players, we just had the will to win after being on the losing end for so many years and our guys fought and played hard every match to finally win something, which in the end is the purpose of playing a sport right? anyways i think this postiong is kind of B/S it's sounds like the guy who started this is a sore loser just wanted this to come easy for him, well it took us 5 years to win our first title and I wont apologize for it.

I would also have to agree about the comment of Armada II playing last indoor session and beating our apprently superior team badly, however we went with it despite that team being good enough for division 1, because playing better teams can only make your team better and give you motiviation to be better yourself. So I actually take the positive from that experience and move forward with it, it's great teams like armada, x-calibur, walkfpac, FC UK etc that make your team better in the long run.

Anyways I wasn't even gonna respond to this and i've alreay said too much.

By the way for indoor my squad loses half of it's better players and we're never nearly as successful at it.

I think in every division there were 2-3 teams that were far better than other teams.

Hmm... I always assumed the teams that win the division get relegated to division 1?The teams that performed well are they going to have first dibs on division 1? The teams that didn’t perform well in division I, will they be replaced to Division II?

The league could talk to captains, or get feedback on the teams in their league. Find out what teams should be placed in Division I due to their debt vs placed in Division II

Just for $hits and giggles, I'm gonna start posting some of the emails I get every season (INDOOR and OUTDOOR) quoting the "pleadings" from the teams who don't want to move, or want to move down and division (names withheld, of course).

Just to keep me honest, all you teams who asked "numerous" times to be bumped up "divisionssssss" can post those pleadings on here as well. For those contemplating "calling my bluff", remember that divisional re-alignment is done at the mid-point. FC UK may very well have asked to be moved up after their 1st match. The request would have been denied because it's imprudent to do the "tinkering" that early in the season.

	anthp wrote:
	... all friends who do nearly everything together.

ewwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

admin wrote:

Just for $hits and giggles, I'm gonna start posting some of the emails I get every season (INDOOR and OUTDOOR) quoting the "pleadings" from the teams who don't want to move, or want to move down and division (names withheld, of course). Just to keep me honest, all you teams who asked "numerous" times to be bumped up "divisionssssss" can post those pleadings on here as well. For those contemplating "calling my bluff", remember that divisional re-alignment is done at the mid-point. FC UK may very well have asked to be moved up after their 1st match. The request would have been denied because it's imprudent to do the "tinkering" that early in the season.

Well we can attest to this. We started off in 2C...ADMIN Moved up up after wining it (Top team who we tied with in points dropped out), 2B we won again so naturally we though 2A, but ADMIN advised us against it as he said honestly 2A would hammer us. So we stayed in 2B and then we started noticing stronger teams coming in...realignments...and next thing you know you have strong teams. Which I don't mind. Same for Indoor. We started at the bottom and moved up. But I for one told ADMIN the year he put us at the top of tier 2 that we are getting smoked and not fun that we should be down one division but ADMIN said if I move you down a division then you will end up beating up on those teams...so relunctanly we stayed put...all in all...we followed ADMIN advice as I truly think he knows best...with that said..I think ADMIN should make the final decision on where returning teams should be placed as he knows from previous past.

Hell I would love to play in the lower divisions and win our games 10-0 every Sunday, LOL.